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Jimmy and Rev. Steve's Conversation
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Enjoy the debate.

A thought inspiring, in depth conversation with Jimmy H.

Jimmy: hey, if you remember, can you email me the link to that site you wanted me to check out about tarot cards?

Rev. Steve:

Jimmy: ok, i've given you ops on tarot and 10 commandments, im prepared to go thru the list, if you want me to. (SEE YOUR VOICE PAGE) obviously my concern is you might grow to hate me and i certainly dont want that to happen, i love you, as Jesus teaches us to love one another. i hope to give you an angle that perhaps you hadnt yet seen.

Rev Steve: "Stop judging by mere appearances and make a right judgment". I don't have hate for anyone. Hate is a waste of emotion. I am always open to the opinions of others, especially yours or I would not have asked! Feel free to "review" the rest of the site, bear in mind that the only REAL purpose of the site is to bring people to God.

Jimmy: ok, just want to make sure, you understand, i've known people to hate me simply becuz i expressed to them my opinion regarding a particular issue, i didnt think you were that sort of person, but , you know, just in case, i wanted to let you know, i mean no harm. ok, and thank you, when i get the time i will go thru that page and offer opinions and just a side note, for instance, last night im having a conversation with my cousin, she just moved here from florida, and she tells me that im too judgemental, well, you know. i told her, your making a judgement on me saying im too judgemental, that in itself is a judgement and furthermore, hypocritical. i think we should be judgemental, but as you quote from John, "make a right judgement" and that particular teaching goes further then just what we see on the surface, make a right judgement means awhole lot of stuff, for example, do not judge others in a way you would not want to be judged, becuz that would not be a right judgement, also, do not judge something to be good that is not good, that also, would not be a right judgement. and so on. anyways, thanks for engaging me in this conversation, i enjoy these kinds of conversations, perhaps you already understand, but not everybody likes to talk about such stuff

Rev Steve: I love a debate, but before I can debate someone, I have to first attempt to understand their point of view. Religion, I have no problem discussing, Politics on the other hand... ;)

Jimmy: as you can imagine im open to any sort of conversation, religion politics , even sports, anything and everything, well, within reason, i aint gonna be much of a conversationalist when it comes to discussing the latest fashions and matters like that

Rev. Steve: No, it's not that, I just have seen your posts on Myspace about the government and Iraq. I agree on some, and disagree on others. Now, I have seen what a heated topic this is for you. I believe there is a greatly fine line between Debating, discussing and arguing. In politics, when people do not see Eye to eye, often, neither move and the entire conversation is wasted.

Jimmy: im not sure what you mean "heated" lol, usually its heated from the other side that come from the angle of hatred for the President of the United States of America

Rev. Steve: I have no problem with POTUS (President Of The United States). My problem is with the decisions he has made and the fact the the majority of our troops are focused on IRAQ, when the person who Caused 9-11 is no where to be found. If I was a drug kingpin and I knew the FBI was at your place, do you think I would be there visiting?? Same concept. I highly doubt that the man who caused 9-11 was Saddam or anyone in Iraq for that matter. Sure, we need to stay there now because their infrastructure is so fragile, but one must ask themselves, how did it get that way???

Jimmy: lol, ok 2 things, 9-11 was not a criminal act. and 2, where do you get your expertise in military strategics?
i hope you understand these people in charge are lifers, thats all they do, thats all theyve done, they have more technology, equipment, experience, and information than any civilian will ever have getting one man will not end world wide islamic terrorism, its not like bin laden is the mafia godfather, we bring him down the whole organization goes down, this is much bigger than that. remember, the bad guys dont agree with the way we are doing things either

Rev. Steve: The mafia analogy may be accurate, but I guarantee it would put a large DENT in the ops. I agree also with your fact that I do not have the knowledge of our governmental Higher power, however, I don't like the idea that the guy with the button may not be listening to them and he himself was AWOL most of his military career before becoming the commander in chief. SEVERAL military personnel (Generals and the like) have retired during the Bush administration and say that they feel that Bush is grossly misusing the military. Now I don't claim to have ANY military expertise, and I can't even give you the names of those Generals I have heard interviewed, so there is no proof behind my point, not quite as easy as sitting the Bible, but I can tell you that when your president's approval rating is in the LOW 30's (lower than any other president in history) and many of his constituents are veterans of some war or another, that there IS something very wrong with how he does business. Again, I have nothing but respect for the title and the man carrying it, as every American should, but I do NOT agree with many of the decisions he has made.

Jimmy: i'd like to ask what decision do you disagree with? and what would happen if we got bin laden? how is that going to stop anything? i mean, we havent had an attack on US soil since 9-11 despite bin ladens calls for further attacks in november of 01 and january of 02( read bin laden's message to America). George W Bush was never AWOL at anytime, that was Bill Clinton, and what Bill Clinton did was illegal, he could even today be arrested for what he did. i kind of find that amazing that such nice people as yourself could be so easily persuaded by political lies. now as far as some generals, left leaning im sure, coming out and saying they would do things differently is nothing new, im sure you could trace such things clear back to the beginning of time in every country around the world. bottom line is the best plans we have are being executed right now, just like in sports, everybody thinks they'd be a better coach then the one of their favorite sports team. there is something i would like to share with you and thats this: there is a bigger movement than whats being reported on your liberal news networds and your liberal newspapers, and your liberal websites, and thats a world wide islamic movement to dominate the world, its not secluded to the hills and valleys of afgahnistan, its in every country around the world where muslims exist. its in America, its in England, its in France, its in Germany, .... all of them, everywhere. people are in denial of the movement around us. every muslim in the world is a bin laden supporter, alot of Christians dont understand this becuz they dont understand islam, and they dont understand who muhammed was. muhammed killed thousands of people, he ordered the death of thousands of people, and in the quran, it calls for muslims to kill non muslims until the time comes when they have total power over the rest of the world, their plan is to dominate the world, and in particular, dominate the Holy Land of Israel, they believe that allah has called them to do this so that when jesus(their jesus, not our Jesus) comes back, they will stake claim to have prepared the land for his return.

Rev. Steve: Whoa, whoa whoa. You are predigest against ALL Muslims. Muslims are not the problem, MUSLIM EXTREMISTS are. Muslim extremists are to Muslim as Christianity is to the KKK. for an educated man who thinks that so many people are in denial, you seem quick to jump to a conclusion about what every person in a certain religious group wants... So you're saying that Kareem Abdul Jabaar, Mohamad Ali and the like want us all to die??? Come on now. You can't really believe this. The bible's own Old Testament says that If I plant two types of crops too close to each other I am to be killed. If I work on the Sabbath, I am to die, and If A child mouths off to their parents, there by not honoring their father and mother, they are to be brought to the town square and stoned to death... Are we, as followers of the bible, to kill all sinners, and if not, as we are Christians, does that mean that JEWS DO believe this? Guess I may be confused here... Btw, funny how politics and religion cross so easily...

Jimmy: sorry brother, the anti christ has you deceived, i'll attempt to show you how, becuz i love you brother.
the quran teaches world domination, the Bible does not teach to kill black people, as far as the old testament laws, first we have to understand, me and you Steve, arent Jewish, we are Christians, we are not bound by law, but by love. let him with no sin cast the first stone"since we all have sinned, none can throw that stone..... and woe to you my friend, for you are unwittingly giving comfort to those who seek your death, and yes, kareem, ali, all those guys read the same quran bin laden does, and bin laden has challenged all muslims on his knowledge of the quran, and you know what, i studied the quran for 2 years, bin laden's right, he is the modern day muhammed... now, WMD was not the reason we went to Iraq, it wasn't even the 14 UN resolutions that Iraq was in violation of, those were just excuses to do something that we had to do. the middle east is undoubtedly the stomping ground of these "Muslims extremist" as you put it, I'd much more prefer to call them "Muslim purist" becuz they are much more like muhammed then so called "moderate muslims" i guess i'd like to ask you if you realize after the 93 attempt on the WTC Ramsey Yousef, the conspirator of that attack, fled America and went to Iraq for safe haven, in 93 they attempted what they accomplished in 01. one thing you will have to realize before you start to see how this is all unfolding is to first understand the world wide islamic movement toward world dominance. again, its not a small secluded gang of thugs in the mountains of afgahnistan trying to pull this off, it exists in every country on earth where muslims dwell. keep your eye on my myspace bulletins, i will wage a daily campaign of the news of the attacks of muslims on non muslims that happen every single day around the world, that your liberal news makers wont report. you know, they say the same thing happened for years when Hitler was making his way around europe, people were in denial of his overall plan of world wide dominance. lol, here we are again, history repeating itself, different players, different time, same game and oh one more point, we have to have our foot in the middle east, and my friend, we have our foot in the middle east, and my friend! its working

Rev. Steve: Yeah Jimmy, again I agree, However, The KKK does not just want to kill our Black Brethren, But also gays, inter racial couples, and anyone else they see as sinners or non righteous. You Seem to know much about Muslims, but how much do you know about Christian Extremists, or Purists as you'd like to call them? Granted, anyone who follows this is not a true follower of Christ, but still... this is why I say that Muslim "purists" are to Islam as the KKK is to Christianity... I do NOT prefer Saddam Hussein over OUR president... That was just low man. I wear a tattooed flag (defilement of the flesh I know) on my left shoulder that says REMEMBER 9/11/01 so that ANYONE can see at any time that I wear my flag on my sleeve. I am as patriotic as you my friend. True patriots do not follow blindly what they are told, they question authority, and do the research. Now I can tell that you have done yours, but it sure seems that if president Bush came on TV tomorrow and said the sky was green, you may just consider believing him... Again, most of this is pure speculation, as you and I are not privy to conversations in the oval office.

Jimmy: excellent point, but why is it that you believe if Prez came out and say the blue sky was green, i'd believe it? what caused you to ask that question? now, here is where your mistaken, im hoping once you realize this, you'll open up a little more a Christian purist is a person who does thier very best to be just like Jesus , right? ok, then, a muslim purist would be somebody who does their very best to be just like muhammed, no? ok, now, you are a Christian, you are learning about who Jesus is, you are trying to be like Jesus the best you know how, this im sure of, you show me a very Christ like attitude on a daily basis, and i certainly appreciate that, but im sure, like me, there's a long ways to go, we are far from perfect, even though we strive to be perfect. now, the question remains, who was muhammed. well, this is pretty important, dont you think, was muhammed a black jesus? an arabic jesus? let me ask you my friend, what do you know about muhammed?

Rev. Steve: I'll be the first to admit, I know very little to nothing about Muhammad. What I do know is the teachings of our Lord and Savior. Jesus preached tolerance, acceptance, love, patience, and peace. The #1 religion in the world is Christianity. #2 is Islam. Here is what I know of Islam: The Muslim (Islamic) faith began with the teachings of a man named Muhammad in the early seventh century. He was an Arabic religious and political figure who taught that one should submit themselves completely to God. His teachings were recorded in a book called the Qur'an. Muslims do not see Muhammad as the founder of Islam but rather the man who brought back the original faith of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. They believe that over time the original message was distorted or lost and that the true message can only be found in Islam. According to the Qur'an, Muslims should submit one hundred percent to the will of God and follow only his teachings. The Muslim faith is a strict one, but one that is very rewarding to those who practice it. They believe in most of the things that the Bible teaches but believe that Christianity has skewed the truth. Christians make up about 33.06% of the world faith, while Muslims make up about 20.28%. Muslims, By your account want a holy war against Christians. If Christians make up the majority of the world's faith, and Jesus preached tolerance of the ignorant and peace to all, why fuel their ignorance fire. Granted, they would like to bring Armageddon to gain the Holy land, but As Christians, don't we believe that God will show them the light in his way and time?

Jimmy:to answer last first: if God will's , yes. now, let me start with correction Jesus says "do not think i have come to bring peace"
i dont know where you got this idea that Jesus is a pacifist or a socialis or a liberal, but he wouldn't any of those things, quite the opposite in fact.ok, now to engage: muhammed was a killer, muhammed personally killed thousands of people. muhammed personally ordered the death of thousands of people (sahih buhkari 5:369 book 59)muhammed teaches muslims to lie for the cause of allah. but as a Christian we know the devil is a liar and the father of it. the quran teaches muslims to kill non muslims, sura 2:191 "kill them where ever you find them" sura 9:5 "lay in wait, besiege them and kill them, unless they submit to islam" sura 47:4 "behead them for allah is great" and on and on, whether its in the hadith or in the quran, it is cover to cover books of death. thats just the writings, what are muslims doing today to help society's and culture's? well, every war currently being fought in the world today involves muslims. this is how muhammed lived, his whole time recorded in the hadith's involved him fighting a war. thats the islamic way of life. and naturally they are going to lie about Jesus, and the Jews, and the catholics and everybody else, thats what the dead do

Rev. Steve: First off, I must say I am impressed that you memorized lines from the Koran. Kinda gives new meaning to 'know your enemy'. Secondly, Is not the Christian quest for peace and service to God stronger than the Muslim Quest for World Dominance?

Jimmy: i dont know where you get this idea Christian quest for peace? Jesus says "do not think i have come to bring peace" we arent here to be appeaser's we are here to seperate right from wrong

Rev. Steve: Have you never heard of the "Prince of Peace"?

Jimmy: ah yes my friend, Jesus is the prince of peace, but not the kind of peace the world might bring. theres a great verse in John 14:27 "Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid." Jesus brings us an inner peace, Jesus does not bring world peace. the world is wicked and corrupt and will someday soon end

Rev. Steve: Ok, sure, I get that, but does the Bible not also teach: Luke 6:27-28- I say unto you which hear, love your enemies, do go to thoes who HATE YOU, bless those who CURSE you, pray for those who dispitefully use you." or for that matter in Psalms 34:14 where it says "Depart from evil and do good; SEEK PEACE and PURSUE it."
And as for the Muslims that wish to Crush Christians, I quote Proverbs 11:17-19- "A kind man benefits himself, but a cruel man brings trouble on himself. The wicked man earns deceptive wages but he who SOWS RIGHTEOUSNESS REAPS a sure reward. The TRULY RIGHTEOUS MAN attains life, but he who pursues evil goes to his death." You see my dear friend, we all reap what we sow. Evil doers will get theirs in the end. I pitty them because as ROMANS 15:21 teaches "Those who were not told about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand." And what about one of the CORNERSTONES of our faith, the GOLDEN RULE, outlined in LUKE 10:27 where it says: "Love the LORD your GOD with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength and all your mind. LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR as YOURSELF." I mean no insult, but perhaps you are misguided in your quest to spread the word about the true path of Muslims. If you need more proof that Christianity is a religion of peace, you need only turn to JOHN, where he says volumes for example: "Do not imitate what is evil but what is good. Anyone who does what is good is from GOD anyone who does evil has not seen God." 1 John 4:7-8 "Dear friends: Let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not know love does not know God, beacuse GOD IS LOVE."
My last point comes from Matthew 6:14-15 which says "For if you FORGIVE MEN when they sin against you, Your HEAVENLY FATHER will also forgive you. BUT if you DO NOT forgive Men for their sins, your father WILL NOT forgive you."

Jimmy: there must be a disconnect, im not sure what your saying or suggesting, i love everybody, but i hate islam. are you trying to say its wrong to hate islam?

Rev. Steve: Perhaps it is not WRONG to hate Islam, but I feel it is not RIGHT to HATE anything. The Koran is a book of Hate and the Bible is a book of LOVE. That being said, why HATE Islam. Why hate anything? At the risk of sounding like a modern Hippy, Hate is a waste of emotion and time, breeding only negativity. I think you can educate yourself on the beliefs of your enemies without hating them or their beliefs. By hating Islam, do you not also hate those who believe in it's teachings by default?

Jimmy: perhaps? you gotta be f**kin sh*ttn me. islam teaches to kill me, yah, i hate it, and so should you! for crying out loud my friend and by the way, to fill in the blanks, its frekin and shuttn , words i made up meaning love and peace , hehe, i never use curse words, and wait a second. why hate anything? if your married and some fellar has sex with your wife, you wouldnt hate that? if some fellar came and had sex with you 4 year old kid, you would hate that? there are lots of things we should hate about this world, in fact, anybody who does not hate the world does not love God. hate is a necessary emotion, who ever told you hate is a waste of emotion and time is a liar and there is no truth in him. and again, i love my enemies, i hate their sins. i hate islam, but i do not hate those who claim to believe in it i hate sin, but i do not hate the sinner. hope this helps. by the way, i never get angry, its all good

Rev. Steve: Wow. Almost sounds like you've been praying to 'Saint Anger' on this one. For the record, I was the one who told me that HATE is a wasted emotion. Hate is what fuels HATE CRIMES, RAPES, MURDERS, CAR BOMBINGS, WARS, just to name a few. Yes, Jimmy I believe Hate is what will fuel the Armogeddon and if telling others that I feel like HATE is a wasted emotion makes me a LIAR... well then so be it. I am not saying I never feel hate. I am human like everyone else. I am falible like everyone else. I'm saying that rather than FESTER in my hate or wasting it as the wasted emotion that I believe it is, I try to learn from it or use it to become something more productive. Do I hate the people that flew planes into the towers? Sure I do, but I turn that hate into something else... a love for my country. Now to you that may sound like 1+1= cheese, but it makes sense to me.

Jimmy: all crimes are a form of hate, the word "hate crime" is purely political. ok, here's where we differ and i hope to show you how. i dont hate the fellars that commit terrorist acts, however, i do hate the act of terror. now, even God hates things. thats just a part of life
sometimes we feel pleasure, sometimes we feel pain. in life, there are things to love, and there are things to hate thats life

Rev. Steve: Why do I feel like you're about to break into song? All kidding aside. I think you have made some clear and concise points here, and I hope you feel I have done the same. I appreciate you taking the time to have this conversation with me and appreciate you letting me put it on the site! Thanks again.

Jimmy: well the appreciation is equalled my friend.

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